To Gabriel - The China Syndrome

[Johnmcd]

Argentina is preparing for Chinese president Hu Jintao visit next Tuesday (today) when he will be received with full honours and expectations given the growing importance of the Asian giant economy’s avid demand for commodities.


Mr. Hu Jintao will be arriving from Brazil where he spent five days, signed several trade agreements and promised significant infrastructure investments. After Argentina he will travel to Chile for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation presidential summit to be held November 20/21 in Chile.

Argentine expectations are based in China’s long term strategy to ensure a supply of commodities for its booming economy that is expected to grow 7% annually until 2020, multiplying its GDP by four with per capita income jumping to 3,000 US dollars from the current 1.090 US dollars.

The importance of China was highlighted by Enrique Mansilla president of the Argentine Chamber of Exporters.

“China’s 2003 grain crop was 70 million tons below that of 1998. The 70 million tons shortfall is equivalent to a record breaking crop for Argentina”, said Mr. Mansilla.
The Southern Cone countries, --abundant suppliers of commodities plus oil--, and China’s economies in that sense complement each other and according to the Argentine press, President Kirchner is anxious to reach a full agreement following the steps of Brazil’s experience.

President Hu Jintao in Brazil promised significant investments in infrastructure, sharing rocket technology and signed an agreement to double bilateral trade in three years from 10 to 20 billion US dollars.

Gabriel is this what you were talking about regarding China.....?
Just two weeks ago the Argentine government’s anxiety about Chinese investment forecasted a grand plan of projects totalling 20 billion US dollars in exchange for a long term agreement to supply grains. However Chinese officials repeatedly discarded the sum and terms involved in the anticipated Buenos Aires announcement and went even further saying that Argentina “lacked a proper and effective country marketing policy”.
The Kirchner administration then blamed the Argentine press for extravagantly floating Chinese wish cookies.
Therefore, much will depend on what happens beginning next Tuesday, and President Hu Jintao is no soft cookie has proved to be an effective member of the Chinese Communist Party: he presided over the Communist Youth; as envoy to Tibet he ruthlessly repressed secession attempts and later accelerated economic reform and growth while maintaining the tight political control of the party over 1,3 billion citizens.

Gabriel what was that you mentioned about Tibet?

Best wishes,
John.

[Gabriel]

John,

Argentina did not invade Iraq. My question about Tibet had to do with double standards. Why shouldn't Argentina trade with China? Everyone else does, including your country. Do you think Argentina should abstain from doing bussiness with the invaders of Diego Garcia too, or are you trying to use your common strategy of applying double standards with Argentina again?
By the way, all the numbers mentioned by the press are irrelevant. Nobody knows what the situation will be one year from now, or five, or twenty. Both Argentina and China will have different presidents then.

Regards,

Gabriel

[Gabriel]

By the way, here is an interesting story from CNN:

MALABO, Equatorial Guinea (AP) -- Equatorial Guinea has decided to seek the extradition of Mark Thatcher, son of the former British prime minister, for trial in an alleged coup plot in the isolated, oil-rich central African nation, a legal official close to the government said Tuesday.

Prosecutors have newly added Thatcher and seven others to the list of those charged in the alleged March takeover plot, legal officials said.

"It's not a question of being tried in absentia," a legal official close to Attorney General Jose Olo Obono said, speaking by telephone to The Associated Press in Senegal on condition of anonymity. The intention is "to invite him to come along," the official said.

There was no immediate comment from Equatorial Guinea's government. Information Minister Allonso Nsue Mokuy referred questions to the attorney-general, Obono. Calls to Obono went unanswered.

Thatcher, a 51-year-old businessman and son of former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, is now under arrest in South Africa in connection with the alleged plot.

Equatorial Guinea accuses Thatcher and other, mainly British, financiers of conspiring for the mercenary overthrow of 25-year president Teodoro Obiang.

The financiers intended to install an exiled opposition figure, Severo Moto, as the figurehead leader of Africa's No. 3 oil producer, Equatorial Guinea claims.

Thatcher attorney Allan Bruce Brand, who has maintained the Briton's innocence, declined additional comment Tuesday.

Equatorial Guinea prosecutors are expected to introduce new evidence there alleging an airplane leased by a joint venture in which Thatcher allegedly had a financial stake was used in the purported plot, the official close to the government said.

The aircraft was used to fly Moto and financiers from the Canary Islands to Bamako, Mali on March 7, prosecutors allege, claiming the flight was meant to put the coup plotters in position for the takeover.

Nineteen men already are on trial here as alleged mercenaries in the plot, allegedly exposed by South African intelligence services just days before the attempt.

Lead defendant Nick du Toit, a South African arms dealer and the only accused currently facing the death penalty, has testified that he met with Thatcher and others in the months before the alleged coup attempt.

Britain's Foreign Office in London declined comment Tuesday, other than to say it was "in touch" with Thatcher in South Africa.

Equatorial Guinea suspended the trial in August, saying it needed time to review emerging allegations against Thatcher and others.

The seven other newly charged defendants include opposition figures in exile in Spain, another legal official involved in the case said.

[Johnmcd]

Gabriel,
Argentina didn't invade Kosova, Afghanistan, Iraq or gives help to any other nation outside of S. America, ie,
Sudan or Ethopia. Niether does China!

Your are with good company.

Best wishes,
John.

[Gabriel]

John,

Who is helping Afghanistan, Ethiopia and Sudan? Please provide us with a list of benefactors. Good company? Yes!, Brasil, Bolivia, Uruguay, Peru, Paraguay, Venezuela, etc. Unfortunately 200 years late, but better late than never.

Regards,

Gabriel

[Johnmcd]

Gabriel,
As you are probably aware Afghanistan was returned to democracy on 9 October. The Afghani people got there because decisive action was taken to rid the country of the ‘Taleban’ phenomenon. The UN fully backed the elections via the UN Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA) Bush nor Blair takes credit for this despite the lives lost. They left the day to President Karzai and the people of Afghanistan. Quite right too. They have been through absolute hell to reach where they are now.

Kofi Annan said,
“He wishes to assure the new Government that it can rely on the assistance of the United Nations to provide continuing support as the political process progresses to consolidate peaceful and secure conditions in Afghanistan”<br>
North East Africa.
The US and the UK along with the EU (this time) are challenging the UN to declare ‘genocide’ in the region of Darfur. The UN is reluctant, as they were in Afghanistan and in Iraq, to declare the region without government and in serious breach of the UN Charter. Meanwhile the aid that is reaching Darfur is marked. “Gift of the American People” or “Live Aid” from the UK. A huge campaign is in progress, here in the UK, to double aid to the region. They are starving and being decimated. Action, not sympathy is needed right now, not tomorrow, but now - immediately!

S. America.
As I said to you before, I do hope that Mercosur does develop fully and bring economic unity to a whole sub-continent that has, in the past, imploded through militarism, greed and lack of a viable vote. Argentina is getting there and leading the way in many respects. They are doing this by opening up their country and their resources and marketing them as never before. So is Brazil. So is China (for as long as it suits their own self-interest)

US foreign policy is a bitter pill, but there is no world wide homeopathic remedy on the shelves. We can all moan and wail over everything the US does, backed by the UK. But doing nothing is not an option today. Better to do something nothing - don’t you think?

Best wishes,
John.

[Gabriel]

John,

The Taliban was armed and trained by the US. Sorry, no points for cleaning your own mess. Doing something? Yes, I agree. But with the full support and the guidance of the UN, not Halliburton! So the Chinese is going to trade with us in order to fulfill their own interests, and this is a bad thing? What interests are the EU and the US fulfilling by subsidizing their agricultural products? Argentina's? Thanks for you help. You can stop now.

Gabriel

[Johnmcd]

Gabriel,
No Gabriel you are very wrong that the Taleban were armed and trained by the US. This is quite simply not true. (Presumably, you are referring to the assistance given to the Mujahideen, by the CIA, during the 1980’s Soviet occupation of the country?)

The Taleban owe their own origins to extreme Islamic fundamentalism which spread from Pakistan along with the ‘Kalashnikov culture, drug trafficking and the Afghan refugee problem. This part led, indirectly, to democracy failing in Pakistan. The Taleban are a phenomenon of the region and of religion and wanted no where. (Is Michael Moore your source of information?)

Subsidization.
As a matter of fact the British EU Trade and Industry representative is trying to stop individual EU countries from subsidising their farmers to allow fair competition. Tony Blair has also taken this up with the Bush administration. You will be interested to know that many Argentine products are already in our supermarkets – even Mate! So some one in Argentina is making a few ££ out of the British consumer.

Best wishes,
John.

[Gabriel]

John,

If the Mujahideen and the Taleban were two totally separate groups, what was the Taleban doing during the Soviet occupation?
The main reason Mercosur-EU trade talks failed is the unfair practice of subsidizing agricultural products. Don't be fooled by the occasional (mostly during your winter months) appearance of fruits and vegetables from the south, this is not what I am talking about.
Don't you like Michael Moore? OK, here is another source of information:

"Letter To The Red States"
Written by a woman from New York City

I am writing this letter to the people in the red states in the middle of the country -- the people
who voted for George W. Bush. I am writing this letter because I don't think we know each other.

So I'll make an introduction. I am a New Yorker who voted for John Kerry. I used to live in California, and if I still lived there, I would vote for Kerry. I used to live in Washington, DC, and if I still lived there, I would vote for Kerry. Kerry won in all three of those regions. Maybe you want to know more about me. Or maybe not; maybe you think you know me already. You think I am some anti-American anarchist because I dislike George W. Bush. You think that I am immoral and anti-family, because I support women's reproductive freedom and gay rights. You think that I am dangerous, and even evil, because I do not abide by your religious beliefs.
Maybe you are content to think that, to write me off as a "liberal" -- the dreaded "L" word -- and rejoice that your candidate has triumphed over evil, immoral, anti-American, anti-family people like me. But maybe you are still curious. So here goes: this is who I am.

I am a New Yorker. I was here, in my apartment downtown, on September 11th. I watched the Towers burn from the roof of my building. I went inside so that I couldn't see them when they fell. I had friends who were inside. I have a friend who still has nightmares about watching people jump and fall from the Towers. He will never be the same. How many people like him do you know? People that can't sit in a restaurant without plotting an escape route, in case it blows up?

I am a worker. I work across the street from the Citigroup Center, which the government told us is a "target" of terrorism. Later, we found out they were relaying very old information, but it was already too late. They had given me bad dreams again. The subway stop near my office was crowded with bomb-sniffing dogs, policemen in heavy protective gear, soldiers. Now, every time I enter or exit my office, all of my possessions are X-rayed to make sure I don't have any weapons. How often are you stopped by a soldier with a bomb-sniffing dog outside your office?

I am a neighbor. I have a neighbor who is a 9/11 widow. She has two children. My husband does odd jobs for her now, like building bookshelves. Things her husband should do. He uses her husband's tools, and the two little girls tell him, "Those are our daddy's tools." How many 9/11 widows and orphans do you know? How often do you fill in for their dead loved ones?

I am a taxpayer. I worked my butt off to get where I did, and so did my parents. My parents saved and borrowed and sent me to college. I worked my way through graduate school. I won a full tuition scholarship to law school. All for the privilege of working 2,600 hours last year. That works out to a 50 hour week, every week, without any vacation days at all. I get to work by 9 am and rarely leave before 9 pm. I eat dinner at my office much more often than I eat dinner at home. My husband and I paid over $70,000 in federal income tax last year. At some point in the future, we will have to pay much more -- once this country faces its deficit and
the impossible burden of Social Security. In fact, the areas of the country that supported Kerry -- New York, California, Illinois, Massachusetts -- they are the financial centers of the nation. They are the tax base of this country. How much did you pay, Kansas? How much did you contribute to this government you support, Alabama? How much of this war in Iraq did you pay for?

I am a liberal. The funny part is, liberals have this reputation for living in Never-Neverland, being idealists, not being sensible. But let me tell you how I see the world: I see America as one nation in a world of nations. Therefore, I think we should try to get along with other nations. I see that gay people exist. Therefore, I think they should be allowed to exist, and be treated the same as other people. I see ways in which women are not allowed to control their own bodies. Therefore, I think we should give women more control over their bodies. I see that people have awful diseases. Therefore, I think we should enable scientists to try to cure them. I see that we have a Constitution. Therefore, I think it should be upheld. I see that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Therefore, I think that Iraq was not an imminent danger to me. It seems so pragmatic to me. How do you see the world? Do you really think voting against gay marriage will keep people from being gay? Would you really prefer that people continue to die from Parkinson's disease? Do you really not care about the Constitutional rights of political detainees? Would you really have supported the war if you knew the truth, or would you have wanted to spend more of our money on health care, job training, terrorism preparedness?

I am an American. I have an American flag flying outside my home. I love my home more than anything. I love that I grew up right outside New York City. I first went to the Statue of Liberty with my 5th grade class, and my mom and dad took me to the Empire State Building when I was 8. I love taking the subway to Yankee Stadium. I loved living in Washington DC and going on dates to the Lincoln Memorial. It is because I love this country so much that I argue with my political opponents as much I do.

I am not safe. I never feel safe. My in-laws live in a small town in Ohio, and that town has received more federal funding, per capita, for terrorism preparedness than New York City has. I take subways and buses every day. I work in a skyscraper across the street from a "target." I have emergency supplies and a spare pair of sneakers in my desk, in case somethng happens while I'm at work. Do you? How many times a month do you worry that your subway is going to blow up? When you hear sirens on the street, do you run to the window to make sure everything is okay? When you hear an airplane, do you flinch? Do you dread beautiful, blue-skied September days? I don't know a single New Yorker who doesn't spend the month of September on tip-toes, superstitiously praying for rain so we don't have to relive that beautiful, blue-skied day.
I am lonely. I feel that we, as a nation, have alienated all our friends and further provoked our
enemies. I feel unprotected. Most of all I feel alienated from my fellow citizens, because I don't understand what you are thinking. You voted for a man who started a war in Iraq for no reason, against the wishes of the entire world. You voted for a man whose lack of foresight and inability to plan has led to massive insurgencies in Iraq, where weapons are disappearing into the hands of terrorists. You voted for a man who let Osama Bin Laden escape into the hills of Afghanistan so that he could start that war in Iraq. You voted for a man who doesn't want to let people love who they want to love; doesn't want to let doctors cure their patients; doesn't want to let women rule their destinies. I don't understand why you voted for this man. For me, it is not enough that he is personable; it is not enough that he seems like one of the guys. Why did you vote for him? Why did you elect a man that lied to us in order to convince us to go to war? (Ten years ago you were incensed when our president lied about his sex life; you thought it was an impeachable offense.)

Why did you elect a leader who thinks that strength cannot include diplomacy or international
cooperaton? Why did you elect a man who did nothing except run away and hide on September 11?

Most of all, I am terrified. I mean daily, I am afraid that I will not survive this. I am afraid that I will lose my husband, that I will never have children, that I will never grow old and watch the
sunset in a backyard of my own.

I am afraid that my career -- which should end with a triumphant and good-natured roast at a retirement party in 2035 -- will be cut short by an attack on me and my colleagues, as we sit sending emails and making phone calls one ordinary afternoon. Is your life at stake? Are you terrified?

I don't think you are. I don't think you realize what you have done. And if anything happens to me or the people I love, I blame you. I wanted you to know that.

[Johnmcd]

Gabriel said:

John,

If the Mujahideen and the Taleban were two totally separate groups, what was the Taleban doing during the Soviet occupation?

The Taleban are essentially a religeous/political movement that came into the country after the Soviets.

Anyway liked the anon letter from New York. Here's how things probably are....


November 15, 2004

Blair calls on America and Europe to work together
BY TIMES ONLINE AND AGENCIES

Tony Blair was tonight expected to call for greater co-operation between America and Europe, in a keynote speech on foreign policy.

The Prime Minister said that President Bush’s administration should do more to enlist the support and co-operation of international partners in its efforts to combat global terrorism.

But European leaders too should make more effort to work with the United States rather than sit on the sidelines and criticise, he said.

Advance copies of the speech that Mr Blair was intending to deliver at London’s Guildhall showed Mr Blair intending to caution Washington against adopting a go-it-alone approach to its war on terror.

The Prime Minister was planning to use the speech to argue that America and Europe should be working together to spread democracy, and human and political rights.

He stressed that he is not advocating a doctrine of promoting democracy via the repeated exercise of military force.

He spoke of the need for the United Nations to take on a more substantial leadership role in pressing for reform in countries where governments injure rather than protect their own citizens.

But he cautioned: "None of this will work, however, unless America too reaches out.

"Multi-lateralism that works should be its aim. I have no sympathy for unilateralism for its own sake."

Mr Blair stressed, however, that critics of the Bush administration made a mistake in under-estimating the strength of its concerns about international terrorism.
"Neither Europe nor the US should be arrogant about the other. It is not a sensible or intelligent response for us in Europe to ridicule America’s arguments and parody their political leadership," Mr Blair said.
He added: "What is entirely sensible, however, is for Europe to say terrorism won’t be beaten by toughness alone.

"Here there is an opportunity for Europe. American policy is evolving. Increasingly both Europe and America are coming to realise that lasting security against fanatics and terrorists cannot be provided by conventional military force but requires a commitment to democracy, freedom and justice.

"The only stable Afghanistan will be a democratic Afghanistan. Ultimately, it is democracy in Iraq that will defeat the insurgents, which is why they are so desperate to stop it.

"The only viable Palestinian state will not just be based on territory, but on democratic values.

"Likewise, the best help we can give Africa is not just through aid, vital though that is, and opening up trade, but through supporting countries in their desperate and fraught attempts to build the institutions of good governance.

"Democracy is the meeting point for Europe and America. I am not, repeat not, advocating a series of military solutions to achieve it. But I am saying that patiently, but plainly, Europe and America should be working together to bring the democratic, human and political rights we take for granted to the world denied them.

"When Kofi Annan reports back to the United Nations in some weeks’ time on UN reform, one reform we should insist on is a greater role of leadership for the United Nations on the responsibility of states to protect not injure their own citizens."

Mr Blair’s official spokesman dismissed a suggestion that Mr Blair’s arguments were designed to justify the Iraqi invasion. They were not, the spokesman said, intended to provide "cover for one particular circumstance."

[caton]

Dear Friends,

The following are quotes to John taken from this very trend:

Quote 1: “President Hu Jintao is no soft cookie has proved to be an effective member of the Chinese Communist Party: he presided over the Communist Youth; as envoy to Tibet he ruthlessly repressed secession attempts and later accelerated economic reform and growth while maintaining the tight political control of the party over 1,3 billion citizens.


Oh, John! Probably HMG and yourself knew nothing about it when you decided to deliver Hong Kong to them, WHITHOUT EVER ASKING THE HONG KONGERS WHISHES!

Hong Kongers didn’t voted for Hu Jintao! Their self fetermination is not respected. Besides, you have a responsability to make other peoples enjoy your ‘democracy’: PLEASE GO AND BOMB CHINA. It’s for freedom’ sake, you know...



Quote 2: “As you are probably aware Afghanistan was returned to democracy on 9 October.”<br>

Ja, ja, ja! VERY GOOD JOKE! Afghans are enjoying democracy! Women are free, no more chadors, no more warlords...
Did –by a happy chance- “your” candidate got elected?
I bet the same will happen in Irak...


Best – Javier




PS: John, do you really believe what you write?

[Johnmcd]

Dearest Javier!
Thank you for blessing the thread with your wisdom. You are such a tease and always good for a joke or two!

Hong Kong is actually democratically no better or worse post 1998. HM Governor went, a new Chinese Governor came in and they still hold elections in the same manner – Hong Kong being a ‘Special Administrative Area’ Anyway, we’ve still got a few ‘imperial nukes’ just in case they get too Bolshevik.

I forgot how bloody awful it must be for you and your sycophantic friends now that Afghanistan is actually democratic. Aren’t the Afghans not worthy of self-determination – or is this a racist thing with you? You can bet all want you on Iraq – better still why don’t you just send your money direct to the insurgents – just as well wasting your money with them – don’t you think.

Anyway, must go know and breathe in some fresh democratic air from my imperial balcony, while I wave to the plebs below.

Cherrio!
John.

[Hutch]

Javier.

"Oh, John! Probably HMG and yourself knew nothing about it when you decided to deliver Hong Kong to them, WHITHOUT EVER ASKING THE HONG KONGERS WHISHES!

Hong Kongers didn’t voted for Hu Jintao! Their self fetermination is not respected. "

So i take it that you therefore support self determination for the Falklands islands then Javier?Excellent. Well you couldnt say 'the HK should have had a choice and the FI shouldnt' could you? That would make you a hypocrite wouldnt it?

Despite the fact that there was an agreement to hand back territory to the Chinese anyway and it was not a delivery of territory but a handback previously agreed.....


Hutch